The Unofficial SMART Scholarship Forum

anotherGiuest wrote:Sorry for the possibly silly question. But can someone lay out what exactly has gotten/is getting cut? I.e the 25k/year stipend?
Thank you!

RPI CSE wrote:

fish_ wrote:just because the money was allocated, doesn't mean that it cannot be cut. it is happening to all federal budgets, including DoD. there are budget drills all of the time where the question is asked "if we cut your budget another x%, what will not get done?" sometimes the pentagon doesn't even ask, they just pull back dollars in an across-the-board cut.

I apologize because I may have explained it poorly. The money is not in the budget anymore. Our funding has not been and will not be cut, because of budget cuts, any time that the program still exists. The money that is being used to bring on new participants is in the budget and could be cut. But for the SMART scholarship, our money is behind the current budget that will be used to pay for 2012 Scholars. This is what I was told during orientation and was corroborated by other sources. To compare our situation to another, if the Air Force was buying 100 new fighters and had payed for 50 that were in the process of being made and was going to order the next 50 the following year, if their budget is cut in half, they lose money that was going to be paying for the new fighters, not the ones that are sitting half built and half payed for.

fish_ wrote:just because the money was allocated, doesn't mean that it cannot be cut. it is happening to all federal budgets, including DoD. there are budget drills all of the time where the question is asked "if we cut your budget another x%, what will not get done?" sometimes the pentagon doesn't even ask, they just pull back dollars in an across-the-board cut.

guest2243123 wrote:I am one of the current scholars that still thinks SMART is a great deal. I do not have children to support and my wife makes a good living as well - I will hardly notice the missing 7k this year and will be done with phase 1 or whatever (graduate next year) before the support payments completely expire.

I am conflicted by what is happening for several reasons.

At orientation I was very impressed when my branch liaison made a statement that I remember going something like this: "You have likely heard that some SMART Scholars are not being hired due to funding cut-backs at their SF, and I am here to tell you that this is true." The liaison then elaborated on what SMART is doing to rectify the situation and said that some of us may/will have a similar experience. I was impressed by this level of honesty and bluntness. It was an example of people within SMART showing good leadership by demonstrating the "bottom line up front" approach that they want us to take.

Coming from that, SPO has always been very fast at answering any questions and concerns that I have had. Furthermore, I am disorganized at times and have missed deadlines by a couple days on a couple things. I was contacted by SPO, I responded appropriately and quickly and they did not punish me with taking my cash award or anything like that - bottom line; they are reasonable people.

From there I learn of concerns with getting a low-ball offer from an SF - that is in fact frightening. However, SMART encourages you to communicate regularly with your SF. I took this advice and have had at least weekly contact with my SF and talk to several people within my SF. I have a certain level of trust in them and and hope that I will not be in that situation.

In the event that this does happen - any salary they offer me is going to be better than an academic postdoc and it is only 2 years. I really want to work in the field of defense-related research and will not let a low starting salary dissuade me from this end (ie: will move to another facility after 2 years or bargain for a higher salary - if you make yourself indispensable, either should be well within your scope)

Then there is the late paycheck and slashed support payments. I see this as a sign of hard economic times, coupled with the fact that SMART is a relatively new program. I knew they were completely restructuring some things when all of the internship and CAC paperwork was being revised and was delayed.

I don't really feel lied to or scammed - I was worried about this program when I heard a new story involving our military branches, pitted against one another, in a scramble to not have their budgets cut (http://www.npr.org/2011/08/25/139934178 ... udget-cuts). I remember wondering to myself if the SMART scholarship will likely experience cuts as well? I am not trying to say that this has anything to do with our support payments being reduced, just that I am not surprised - given other things that are going on.

At worst I feel disappointed that I will not be able to add an extra 7K to my savings account to assist with moving expenses associated with the permanent relocation upon graduation.

Lastly, I couldn't possibly compare what is happening with SMART to social issues like civil rights or women's suffrage or the like. I do not believe that the majority of SMART scholars will get low-ball offers from an SF. I do not believe that SMART is going to take advantage of us and make unnecessary cuts or changes to our contracts.

My personal opinion is that if you believe that SMART has maliciously screwed you over because they have money that they are withholding from you, and you then pursue legal action against them; then you are headed towards a self fulfilling prophecy.

guest2243123 wrote:I am one of the current scholars that still thinks SMART is a great deal. I do not have children to support and my wife makes a good living as well - I will hardly notice the missing 7k this year and will be done with phase 1 or whatever (graduate next year) before the support payments completely expire.

From there I learn of concerns with getting a low-ball offer from an SF - that is in fact frightening. However, SMART encourages you to communicate regularly with your SF. I took this advice and have had at least weekly contact with my SF and talk to several people within my SF. I have a certain level of trust in them and and hope that I will not be in that situation.

Then there is the late paycheck and slashed support payments. I see this as a sign of hard economic times, coupled with the fact that SMART is a relatively new program. I knew they were completely restructuring some things when all of the internship and CAC paperwork was being revised and was delayed.

I don't really feel lied to or scammed - I was worried about this program when I heard a new story involving our military branches, pitted against one another, in a scramble to not have their budgets cut (http://www.npr.org/2011/08/25/139934178 ... udget-cuts). I remember wondering to myself if the SMART scholarship will likely experience cuts as well? I am not trying to say that this has anything to do with our support payments being reduced, just that I am not surprised - given other things that are going on.

At worst I feel disappointed that I will not be able to add an extra 7K to my savings account to assist with moving expenses associated with the permanent relocation upon graduation.

guest2243123 wrote:Lastly, I couldn't possibly compare what is happening with SMART to social issues like civil rights or women's suffrage or the like. I do not believe that the majority of SMART scholars will get low-ball offers from an SF. I do not believe that SMART is going to take advantage of us and make unnecessary cuts or changes to our contracts.

Guest wrote: This is an excellent post. It is silly for anyone to get upset at each other. It is fine and good if anyone wants to keep going with the program. It is also fine if they feel it is still a good opportunity. Every situation is unique. I don't feel either of those things, and I hope that's fine with everyone else too. I just hope we can all get behind one another and support each other, no matter how useful we find SMART. There are many of us who feel cheated and are going to have financial hardships due to this, no matter what arises. I hope those who are still supportive of the program can at least help us out by standing up to OGS with us. We are all in a fairly small group and should watch out for one another, because no one else is going to. Hopefully they won't change anything else in the future, but if they do, and it affects you people who are still gung-ho, I'll be there for you guys. FB page

empty wrote:As another current Scholar, I just want to go on record that I firmly support the notions of RPI.

I support those who recognize it is a breach of contract (that could potentially happen again) and take the opportunity to leave the SMART program without repaying (as is there right when a contract is substantially altered).

I also support those who stay because they sincerely believe that they are in the best position for their personal situation (be that the current SMART program or just the opportunity to work for their SF).


People currently applying need to be aware of the past and current status of the program and hearing all opinions, no matter how extreme, are important.

Guest wrote: Yes, it was intended to be crude. At the PhD level, there are many opportunities for highly qualified graduates. Namely, top-tier university tenure track positions offer 10-20%+ more salary with no commitment. Also, since the SF labs are going to be less motivated to publish like crazy, PhD graduates can actually ruin their careers by working for the labs if they don't get to publish frequently enough. The only reason this scholarship was worth it was the $57000/yr during school. STEM PhDs almost always have their tuition paid for due to a GSR/GRA or TA position with their advisor. They also get paid for those things. If they want more, NDSEG, Jack Kent Cooke, NASA, School department fellowships, NSF, and many others offer 35000-50000/yr with all the same selection requirements as SMART. The only reason to take SMART is the large pay benefits as a student, not later as an employee. Now those are gone, so this scholarship is worth less than all those others because it pays about the same and has contractual obligations. So maybe my reference to indentured servitude is not exactly correct, but it is derogatory and has the same feel to me anyway. My future options are severely compromised and I'm not even getting the compensation for which I gave up those options.

RPI CSE wrote:

Guest wrote:

Scholar wrote:Apparently Guest2 just knows everything about SMART and we can't say anything without getting our asses jumped on or a pointless argument started. I just hate that because we are whining about internship payments getting cut people applying for the program are reconsidering it. I just feel like all the legal action and everything people keep talking about is a waste of time. It sucks. Yeah. But it doesn't make me feel like they are going to just keep changing stuff up on us constantly. We agreeded to comply with all handbook policies including anything that updates from the time we sign on. And internship guidelines are in the handbook and are now updated and we must comply with them. You checked the box on the contract and signed it. I'm sorry. But get over it, you're not going to get anywhere fighting with the government..have you not learned anything from being in the program yet?

Its good that they are reconsidering. This is not an awesome free bunch of money that students should jump for joy just to have the opportunity for. This is an employment contract dressed up like an award. Recipients are chosen from the highly qualified so its not like they need jobs. If SMART doesn't pay well enough then noone in their right mind would take it. There are several other graduate level fellowships and hundreds of undergraduate scholarships for the highly qualified which are free awards. That's why I feel duped. I went for the one with the moat benefits. Now it has less but my career is still compromised. Applicants should see SMART for what it is, an impotent recruiting scheme resulting in indentured servants. To feel different suggests you have a low opinion of your value. Your comments also sound very defeatist. Why are you going to sit there and let someone run you over with a truck and say...well they are the govt so they can do that and besides I'm so grateful for the mediocre award that I don't mind anyway because I couldn't do any better. Come on! You were valuable enough to get SMART so you are valuable enough to get what you deserve...respect at the least! Applicants should simply be aware of the possible land mines in the field into which they are so eager to trod.

If this ends up being a horribly biased post, my apologies, I am attempting to sit at a neutral ground and be reasonable about the scholarship, something I feel many discussing it have failed to do.

Scholar, you are acting the same way as guest2, but on the other extreme, I do hope you see that. As for people reconsidering the program, that is a good thing. There needs to be transparency with everything that is going on so people will be able to make an intelligent and informed decision. If someone does not want the possibility to exist that they will have their contract changed, well then they should be aware that contracts have changed in the past. And why is the legal action a waste of time? Is it a waste of time to try and fight for the pay of active duty military members when it gets cut? Or when someone is not being treated fairly, should no one stick up for them? Everything we do is a demonstration to SMART that we will not be pushed around without a fight, we will not be lied to and be okay with it. Please consider the old phrase "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." It is important to realize that if they can do this, they can do so much more. Not that they will, that is not a guarantee, but that they can.

As for "comply with all handbook policies including anything that updates from the time we sign on," the updates made need to be reasonable. They could not tell us that we are not getting a stipend anymore because it is too much money for them to pay, that would not be reasonable. And the 1,200 was promised in more than just the handbook. It was stated at orientation and I believe mentioned in a lot of paperwork. Removing a large source of funding is not an update, it is an out of contract change. Updates include policies and wording and possible changes to reporting, not this.

And "But get over it, you're not going to get anywhere fighting with the government," is not one of the smartest things I have heard. Did you know that the Government at one point said that people could be slaves? Did you know at one point the Government said that alcohol was banned everywhere in the US? Did you know that at one point the Government said that women could not vote and that married women had no rights to property? My apologies to resorting to hyperbole, but it does make the point much easier to get across and I am admitting it is a bit of an exaggeration. The point is that we can change things that aren't right, we can fight for the right to have promises kept.

As for Guest, while there are many other awards out there, many of them still do not match SMART, and getting into SMART is not a guarantee that you will be able to get the same money from other sources. And to call the program indentured servitude is a bit crude don't you think? Yes, it is a scholarship for service and we do have a commitment made to the government, but I would not call this indentured servitude. Indentured servants were not getting paid to go and do something that would normally cost them money, and getting that paid for. We are not paying the money we have been given back, we get to keep it. Then once we begin work, we get a real salary! A bit better than having your boat ticket paid for, then owing a man years of your life, at no additional cost to him, to pay back the boat ticket. Maybe you were doing the same hyperbole I was, if so I am just making it a bit clearer.

I do agree though, that everyone should have the rights to know what is going on! Although I still would not call this a mediocre award, I am getting approximately 44,000 just in tuition a year. Not true for all, but you can make it worth it!

Now to show someone losing a lot because of this. A friend I met at orientation accepted this scholarship because it was the only way to get back to school and get a PHD. She has 2 kids and a husband and is the major bread-winner for the family. She did all the math and found out if she saved enough by living cheap and not getting any of the extra things that she would want (new tv, new car, ect) she would be able to make this work, barely. She is going to be working 4 internships over her 5 year school period. She has now been told that she is getting approximately $50,000 less over the next 5 years than she had signed up for. I don't know what her situation is with regards to being paid by her base, but she was careful, she planned for everything, and now she is losing a ton of money and might not be able to afford to continue with this program.

I on the other hand, am losing approximately $21,000 due to my two internships, but will be getting $20,000 over the next two years from my school in scholarships that I had put on hold due to the $5,000 cap. I would not quit the program over that $1,000. But I might leave the program after I finish my commitment, due to the fact that I have been lied to and I would rather not keep dealing with that.

I hope I have been at least somewhat neutral, pointing out both sides, feel free to make comments or ask questions, I check the boards frequently and am always up for a friendly discussion.

RPI CSE wrote:
As for Guest, while there are many other awards out there, many of them still do not match SMART, and getting into SMART is not a guarantee that you will be able to get the same money from other sources. And to call the program indentured servitude is a bit crude don't you think?

I do agree though, that everyone should have the rights to know what is going on! Although I still would not call this a mediocre award, I am getting approximately 44,000 just in tuition a year. Not true for all, but you can make it worth it!

Now to show someone losing a lot because of this. A friend I met at orientation accepted this scholarship because it was the only way to get back to school and get a PHD. She has 2 kids and a husband and is the major bread-winner for the family. She did all the math and found out if she saved enough by living cheap and not getting any of the extra things that she would want (new tv, new car, ect) she would be able to make this work, barely. She is going to be working 4 internships over her 5 year school period. She has now been told that she is getting approximately $50,000 less over the next 5 years than she had signed up for. I don't know what her situation is with regards to being paid by her base, but she was careful, she planned for everything, and now she is losing a ton of money and might not be able to afford to continue with this program.

I on the other hand, am losing approximately $21,000 due to my two internships, but will be getting $20,000 over the next two years from my school in scholarships that I had put on hold due to the $5,000 cap. I would not quit the program over that $1,000. But I might leave the program after I finish my commitment, due to the fact that I have been lied to and I would rather not keep dealing with that.

I hope I have been at least somewhat neutral, pointing out both sides, feel free to make comments or ask questions, I check the boards frequently and am always up for a friendly discussion.

Guest wrote:

Scholar wrote:Apparently Guest2 just knows everything about SMART and we can't say anything without getting our asses jumped on or a pointless argument started. I just hate that because we are whining about internship payments getting cut people applying for the program are reconsidering it. I just feel like all the legal action and everything people keep talking about is a waste of time. It sucks. Yeah. But it doesn't make me feel like they are going to just keep changing stuff up on us constantly. We agreeded to comply with all handbook policies including anything that updates from the time we sign on. And internship guidelines are in the handbook and are now updated and we must comply with them. You checked the box on the contract and signed it. I'm sorry. But get over it, you're not going to get anywhere fighting with the government..have you not learned anything from being in the program yet?

Its good that they are reconsidering. This is not an awesome free bunch of money that students should jump for joy just to have the opportunity for. This is an employment contract dressed up like an award. Recipients are chosen from the highly qualified so its not like they need jobs. If SMART doesn't pay well enough then noone in their right mind would take it. There are several other graduate level fellowships and hundreds of undergraduate scholarships for the highly qualified which are free awards. That's why I feel duped. I went for the one with the moat benefits. Now it has less but my career is still compromised. Applicants should see SMART for what it is, an impotent recruiting scheme resulting in indentured servants. To feel different suggests you have a low opinion of your value. Your comments also sound very defeatist. Why are you going to sit there and let someone run you over with a truck and say...well they are the govt so they can do that and besides I'm so grateful for the mediocre award that I don't mind anyway because I couldn't do any better. Come on! You were valuable enough to get SMART so you are valuable enough to get what you deserve...respect at the least! Applicants should simply be aware of the possible land mines in the field into which they are so eager to trod.

Scholar wrote:Apparently Guest2 just knows everything about SMART and we can't say anything without getting our asses jumped on or a pointless argument started. I just hate that because we are whining about internship payments getting cut people applying for the program are reconsidering it. I just feel like all the legal action and everything people keep talking about is a waste of time. It sucks. Yeah. But it doesn't make me feel like they are going to just keep changing stuff up on us constantly. We agreeded to comply with all handbook policies including anything that updates from the time we sign on. And internship guidelines are in the handbook and are now updated and we must comply with them. You checked the box on the contract and signed it. I'm sorry. But get over it, you're not going to get anywhere fighting with the government..have you not learned anything from being in the program yet?

Guest2 wrote:

guesta wrote:What SMART is doing is really bad, I totally understand. But I couldn't help but think that they do this simply because they have no other choice. In the past two years I have heard the funding for many government-sponsored fellowships/internships programs were cut, and some programs simply disappears. SMART is a strong program and even though it's not going anywhere, I believe its funding are also being reduced. I don't think protesting would do much, because the money has to come from somewhere. In this economy, I imaging that if the story of SMART scholars' internship support being cut gets on the main newspaper, we simply won't get any sympathy from the majority of people because of the dire financial situation for everyone.

Bottom line, do what you can, but prepare to take the blow, count your blessings, and move on.

Unfortunately, this too is false (but there was no way for you to know that)

At orientation, the head of the entire SMART Program Office told us that each year, the funds were secured for all expenses for all the applicants.

So for example, if you were accepted in 2010, all your funding was put in an "account" in 2010 for all the years of your award. They don't have to scale everyone back if their funding is cut. If their funding is cut, they have to just scale back the NEW people they take in.

So they are definitely, absolutely, CHOOSING to reallocate the money from our internship support payments. It's not because the money isn't there - it's because they WANT to spend it on something else instead.

That's not okay. Promises are promises. Especially when it's the government and your future employer.

guesta wrote:What SMART is doing is really bad, I totally understand. But I couldn't help but think that they do this simply because they have no other choice. In the past two years I have heard the funding for many government-sponsored fellowships/internships programs were cut, and some programs simply disappears. SMART is a strong program and even though it's not going anywhere, I believe its funding are also being reduced. I don't think protesting would do much, because the money has to come from somewhere. In this economy, I imaging that if the story of SMART scholars' internship support being cut gets on the main newspaper, we simply won't get any sympathy from the majority of people because of the dire financial situation for everyone.

Bottom line, do what you can, but prepare to take the blow, count your blessings, and move on.